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Beijing Review reporter Jordyn Dahl caught up with Yu Jin， Managing Partner of McKinsey & Co.’s Beijing Office， after the Influential Dialogue With Global Women Youth Mentors of the Global Youth Leadership Forum held in Beijing on November 8 to discuss what challenges women pursuing a career in China face， how society should nurture potential female leaders and how Yu defines success. Excerpts of the interview follow：
Beijing Review： What should China be doing to nurture potential female leaders？ Yu Jin： Today for women coming out of college， I don’t think there’s much of an issue of women joining the workforce. But we need a culture that helps women at midlevel positions and helps create leaders. We actually had a report years ago about the percentage of women in boardrooms and top executive roles. Compared to the rest of the world， especially in Europe， China is falling behind. We have demonstrated that companies with more women represented at the top outperform their peers economically. Having women in decision-making roles will help bring insight into a company， and create more versatile leadership styles and cultures， which will actually help enable the transformation of business organizations.
I don’t think the private sector is fully aware of how important having women at the top is. Multinationals tend to be more aware of this and…they are making a deliberate effort of hiring and developing women at the top， but not a lot of Chinese companies are aware of this. Companies need to be much more proactive in making a conscious effort in helping women succeed， and having a successful role model will make a huge difference. Having mentors in any organization is really important and having people guide you and help you anticipate your path and tell what you need to be doing and where you need to be going.
What role have mentors played in your life？
I have benefited a great deal from mentors. I wouldn’t be where I am without mentors. I have one mentor who I feel particularly indebted to. I had my first down at McKinsey when I was a second year associate. I went straight from my PhD to working at McKinsey， and I was struggling with my performance. My mentor， who was a woman one year ahead of me， believed in my intrinsic ability and was willing to take on the personal risk. She would bring me in when nobody wanted me on their studies. She brought me under her wing and onto her team and coached me on the side but also gave me a lot of autonomy to fully demonstrate myself. A mentor who believes in you and who goes out of their way to help you， gives you support and trust and enables you to demonstrate your potential is so important. Without her I would have been kicked out of McKinsey many， many years ago. You need different mentors at different times in your career. You need to have the mindset of always cultivating mentors. What is the biggest challenge you have faced in your career so far？
I just described one down I had. I wouldn’t consider that a challenge， though. Those are the best things that ever happened to me. Because whenever you fall there is a learning opportunity， and I picked up a lot more confidence and I really learned a lot growing out of it. It was actually my growth spurt， if you will.
The term “leftover women” is making the rounds in Chinese and Western media. Is this cultural phenomenon holding women back and keeping them from pursuing high-powered careers？
I do encounter some women even in my organization who are struggling with this. They are smart and very strong and have a lot of potential， but they are worried， particularly the ones who are still single， that spending too much time in pursuing a serious career will have a negative impact on their personal life and they will become“leftover women.” I don’t think it’s a predominate issue， but I have encountered it. This requires a whole mindset shift across the whole society， not just women. What is still puzzling me is that the discussions about women or “lean in” discussions are still happening mostly within groups of women. I think these discussions， which go beyond women， diversity and women leadership， should really be discussions about mental liberalization. Women leadership discussions cannot be successful if men aren’t aware of this. Men at the top of organizations—if they are not making a conscious effort， nothing will happen. Women are called “leftover women” because Chinese men find it hard to deal with stronger women. This is due to a lot of cultural perceptions that are placed in their minds. No matter how successful a woman is she tends to place an even higher standard on men. They need men to be more successful than themselves. If they are progressing fast， it is hard to find a man who is growing as quickly as they are， let alone staying ahead of them. Men don’t have to always be making more money and be a mentor and whatever else. We need to change the mindset to enable men to enjoy family life， as well as addressing the“leftover women” issue.
Have you faced discrimination as a woman in the workplace？ If so， how did you deal with it？
In McKinsey I was actually very lucky. When I became an engagement manager， only two women were ahead of me and they realized they were pregnant and quit. At the time there was a strong impression that no woman would go beyond that position while having children. The firm recognized that and the global managing director who took over the position launched three strategic initiatives， and the first was to help women at my stage become successful in the firm. There was a lot of support and programs being created to help women go through that stage. Instead of discrimination， I encountered a lot of support. How are things different for women today than when you first started？ Are there unique challenges they face？
No， nothing in particular. I have to say that living is becoming more expensive. When I needed to buy property， prices were still reasonable. But now it’s very high， so young people raising kids are facing more economic pressure than I did when I first started my career. So they are facing bigger challenges and a bigger struggle in terms of should I go to work and contribute more income to the family or what if I cannot afford a nanny or find one that is fully reliable， or am I able to afford having two kids？ On the other hand， I’ve seen young women entrepreneurs who are working from home. Today technology provides more flexibility in having a career while fulfilling family roles.
Do you see the traditional roles in China shifting？
Tradition has been that women take on more of the household burdens. In people I know I do see a lot of men who are picking up the responsibility as well. I just had a discussion with one of my colleagues and her husband is playing a much bigger role. He switched to part time just to take care of their first baby， and she is thinking about whether or not to have another one because she doesn’t want to put more pressure on her husband.
How would you define success？
If on your last day you look back and are given another choice， would you still want to live life that way？ If the answer is yes， it’s a successful life. It’s not a title or wealth accumulation but do you really know the meaning of your life and are you able to live that way.
Beijing Review： What should China be doing to nurture potential female leaders？ Yu Jin： Today for women coming out of college， I don’t think there’s much of an issue of women joining the workforce. But we need a culture that helps women at midlevel positions and helps create leaders. We actually had a report years ago about the percentage of women in boardrooms and top executive roles. Compared to the rest of the world， especially in Europe， China is falling behind. We have demonstrated that companies with more women represented at the top outperform their peers economically. Having women in decision-making roles will help bring insight into a company， and create more versatile leadership styles and cultures， which will actually help enable the transformation of business organizations.
I don’t think the private sector is fully aware of how important having women at the top is. Multinationals tend to be more aware of this and…they are making a deliberate effort of hiring and developing women at the top， but not a lot of Chinese companies are aware of this. Companies need to be much more proactive in making a conscious effort in helping women succeed， and having a successful role model will make a huge difference. Having mentors in any organization is really important and having people guide you and help you anticipate your path and tell what you need to be doing and where you need to be going.
What role have mentors played in your life？
I have benefited a great deal from mentors. I wouldn’t be where I am without mentors. I have one mentor who I feel particularly indebted to. I had my first down at McKinsey when I was a second year associate. I went straight from my PhD to working at McKinsey， and I was struggling with my performance. My mentor， who was a woman one year ahead of me， believed in my intrinsic ability and was willing to take on the personal risk. She would bring me in when nobody wanted me on their studies. She brought me under her wing and onto her team and coached me on the side but also gave me a lot of autonomy to fully demonstrate myself. A mentor who believes in you and who goes out of their way to help you， gives you support and trust and enables you to demonstrate your potential is so important. Without her I would have been kicked out of McKinsey many， many years ago. You need different mentors at different times in your career. You need to have the mindset of always cultivating mentors. What is the biggest challenge you have faced in your career so far？
I just described one down I had. I wouldn’t consider that a challenge， though. Those are the best things that ever happened to me. Because whenever you fall there is a learning opportunity， and I picked up a lot more confidence and I really learned a lot growing out of it. It was actually my growth spurt， if you will.
The term “leftover women” is making the rounds in Chinese and Western media. Is this cultural phenomenon holding women back and keeping them from pursuing high-powered careers？
I do encounter some women even in my organization who are struggling with this. They are smart and very strong and have a lot of potential， but they are worried， particularly the ones who are still single， that spending too much time in pursuing a serious career will have a negative impact on their personal life and they will become“leftover women.” I don’t think it’s a predominate issue， but I have encountered it. This requires a whole mindset shift across the whole society， not just women. What is still puzzling me is that the discussions about women or “lean in” discussions are still happening mostly within groups of women. I think these discussions， which go beyond women， diversity and women leadership， should really be discussions about mental liberalization. Women leadership discussions cannot be successful if men aren’t aware of this. Men at the top of organizations—if they are not making a conscious effort， nothing will happen. Women are called “leftover women” because Chinese men find it hard to deal with stronger women. This is due to a lot of cultural perceptions that are placed in their minds. No matter how successful a woman is she tends to place an even higher standard on men. They need men to be more successful than themselves. If they are progressing fast， it is hard to find a man who is growing as quickly as they are， let alone staying ahead of them. Men don’t have to always be making more money and be a mentor and whatever else. We need to change the mindset to enable men to enjoy family life， as well as addressing the“leftover women” issue.
Have you faced discrimination as a woman in the workplace？ If so， how did you deal with it？
In McKinsey I was actually very lucky. When I became an engagement manager， only two women were ahead of me and they realized they were pregnant and quit. At the time there was a strong impression that no woman would go beyond that position while having children. The firm recognized that and the global managing director who took over the position launched three strategic initiatives， and the first was to help women at my stage become successful in the firm. There was a lot of support and programs being created to help women go through that stage. Instead of discrimination， I encountered a lot of support. How are things different for women today than when you first started？ Are there unique challenges they face？
No， nothing in particular. I have to say that living is becoming more expensive. When I needed to buy property， prices were still reasonable. But now it’s very high， so young people raising kids are facing more economic pressure than I did when I first started my career. So they are facing bigger challenges and a bigger struggle in terms of should I go to work and contribute more income to the family or what if I cannot afford a nanny or find one that is fully reliable， or am I able to afford having two kids？ On the other hand， I’ve seen young women entrepreneurs who are working from home. Today technology provides more flexibility in having a career while fulfilling family roles.
Do you see the traditional roles in China shifting？
Tradition has been that women take on more of the household burdens. In people I know I do see a lot of men who are picking up the responsibility as well. I just had a discussion with one of my colleagues and her husband is playing a much bigger role. He switched to part time just to take care of their first baby， and she is thinking about whether or not to have another one because she doesn’t want to put more pressure on her husband.
How would you define success？
If on your last day you look back and are given another choice， would you still want to live life that way？ If the answer is yes， it’s a successful life. It’s not a title or wealth accumulation but do you really know the meaning of your life and are you able to live that way.