李辉(以下简称“李”):现存的一些问题,恐怕不是单纯的经济改革所能解决的。早在八十年代就有人呼吁,政治体制必须和市场经济协调发展。现在这恐怕已成为改革的“瓶颈”。何清涟(以下简称“何”):世界历史上,任何一个国家的社会转型,都要完成三个层面的变迁,第一个层面是政治制度的变迁,第二个层面是意识形态的变迁,第三个层面是财产所有权的变革。咱们中国改革了二十年,也就是完成了财产所有权这个层面的一半变迁。改革之前,全体社会成员几乎都是无产阶级,只拥有一点生活资料, Li Hui (hereinafter referred to as “Li”): Some existing problems may not be solved by a simple economic reform. As early as the 1980s, some people called for the political system to develop harmoniously with the market economy. Now I am afraid that this reform has become a “bottleneck.” He Qinglian (hereinafter referred to as “He ”): In the history of the world, the social transformation of any one country must complete three levels of change. The first level is the change of political system and the second level is the change of ideology The third level is the change in property ownership. We have reformed China for two decades, that is, half the change in the ownership of property has been completed. Before the reform, almost all members of the society were proletarians, they only owned a bit of living materials,