戴园晨,男,1926年生。现为中国社会科学院经济研究所研究员,著名经济学家。近几年来围绕宏观经济管理、财政、金融、价格以及宏观调控手段诸方面。针对当前改革中出现的种种问题,进行了广泛的综合研究。各类论著达100百万字以上。主要著作有:《社会主义宏观经济学》、《中国价格问题探索》等等。产权问题实质上是最终收益权的归属问题。在明确产权的前提下,通过民营化使企业脱离财产软约束状态,是种较佳选择。何:10年改革的主调是放权让利,我们一直想绕开所有制和全面就业这两个问题。但形势的发展使这两个问题日益尖锐化,有人主张把产权问题摆到首位,您怎样看待这个问题? 戴:产权这个词,首先出现在交易成本学说里面。现在的产权问题和我们过去讲的所有制问题有区别。产权理论实质上是讲最终收益权的归属问题,我们习惯用“负盈不负亏”“大锅饭”这类词来说明收益权的归属。所以,从理论上讲是新理 Dai Park Chen, male, born in 1926. Now a researcher at the Institute of Economic Research, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, a famous economist. In recent years, we have revolved around macroeconomic management, finance, finance, pricing and macro-control measures. In response to the problems that have emerged in the current reform, a comprehensive and comprehensive study has been conducted. All kinds of treatises amount to 100 million words or more. Major works include: “Socialist Macroeconomics”, “China's price exploration” and so on. Property rights issue is essentially the ownership of the final proceeds of ownership issues. Under the precondition of clarifying the property rights, it is a better choice to separate the enterprises from the soft assets by privatization. He: The keynote of the 10-year reform is that the delegation of power and letting profits be made. We have always wanted to bypass the two issues of ownership and full employment. However, the development of the situation has sharpened these two issues and some people have advocated putting the issue of property right in the first place. How do you think about this issue? Dai: The term property rights first appeared in the theory of transaction costs. The issue of property right now differs from the issue of ownership we used to talk about. The theory of property rights is essentially to say the ownership of the final right of return. We are accustomed to using the terms “negative profit and loss” and “big pot” to explain the ownership of the right of income. Therefore, in theory, is a neo-Confucianism