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Li Yinhe is a researcher， profes- sor， and doctorial tutor with the Institute of Sociology of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences. The sociologist became a widow after the passing of her husband Wang Xiaobo， one of the best contemporary Chinese writers. In 1999， Asiaweek listed Li as one of the “50 most influential people in China.” Of course， she is better known to the Chinese public as a sexologist – the first sociologist in China to study sex.
In late 2014， Li， who had shied away from the public eye in recent years， again jumped into the spotlight. On December 14， 2014， an internet post accusing her of“cheating the public” popped up. The post claimed that Li was actually a lesbian and living with a female partner for years. Several days later， on her blog， Li responded and revealed that her partner of 17 years is a female-to-male transsexual known only as “Knight.” Li elaborated that although“Knight” had undergone partial sexual reassignment surgery， Li identifies herself as fully heterosexual. The announcement stirred huge waves of strong support as well as criticism. The identity of her partner， a former taxi driver 12 years Li’s junior， made the announcement even more“appalling” to many. As homosexuals are starting to find more acceptance， the vast majority of the Chinese public isn’t aware that a transgender group even exists. For the first time， Li and her partner sparked national-wide discussion about the group.
Li， as a heterosexual woman， how did you accept the transsexual identity of Knight？
Knight： It’s never been a problem for me. The whole thing has been smooth and natural.
Li Yinhe （Li）： I got used to it very quickly. Perhaps a factor is that I am a researcher in related fields， so I know what’s going on there. I didn’t think too much about it and love him as a man.
Knight， why wouldn’t you identify yourself as a lesbian？
Knight： In my early years， I thought I was a lesbian. I hung out with lesbians in order to find a partner. Eventually， I started feeling weird because I just wasn’t really interested in lesbians and couldn’t find chemistry with anyone. Before Li， I had another long-time girlfriend， and she is also heterosexual.
Li： The transgender group is a minority group of the minority LGBT community. Many people confuse the concept of transgender with lesbian or gay. Actually， sexual reassignment is about gender identity – their behavior doesn’t conform to what is typically associated with the gender they were assigned at birth. Being gay only refers to sexual attraction to the same gender. Knight， do you feel comfortable with your current body？ Do you have identity issues？ Why did you choose sexual reassignment surgery and why only part of it？ Do you do it for Li？
Knight： Actually， I am OK with myself and don’t worry that I am different from most. Even when I was young， I didn’t suffer much pressure. My parents are nice and they never push me. I chose the reassignment surgery because I really wanted to be a real man. I don’t like breasts. Personally， I wanted the complete surgery because that was the only way I would be allowed to change the gender on my ID. Li objected. She insisted that the technology wasn’t yet mature and worried about complications.
Li： I am OK with his body. I actually tried to persuade him to give up the whole surgery idea. But he really couldn’t accept that part of his body， so I didn’t stop him. Further surgery would have required hormone treatment， which can be more problematic. These things can be harmful to his health. Why should people voluntarily do anything harmful to their health？
Did you ever think “she/he is the one” when you began to date？ Has your relationship gradually matured through ups and downs？
Li： From the very beginning， I believed he was the one. And I’ve never had any second thoughts.
Knight： I thought she was my Miss Right years ago. Although I also found one or two other women attractive in the 17 years we’ve been together， I always told her and we talked about the problem.
Do you mind the absence of a marriage certificate？
Knight： I don’t care about that paper. However， a lack of a legally-binding marriage does cause a lot of problems. For example， we don’t have joint custody of our adopted son. Custody could only be in one name. If one of us needs surgery， the other can’t give consent. And of course there are problems related to property. For many years， she has been calling for legalization of homosexual marriage in China. But I don’t think we’re going to live to see that happen.
Li： You can’t say that for sure. Taiwan is already making rapid progress in this aspect and we all have hope. Besides， in many ways， I think China’s soil for sexual culture is actually superior to the West because China doesn’t have as deep-rooted homophobia as some countries. Chinese people have become more tolerant of homosexuals in recent years.
Is the 12-year age gap a bigger issue？ Li： I don’t think so. I am the older one taking advantage of him. He is a responsible guy and I never worry about the age gap.
Knight： I don’t think the age gap is a problem. When we just started dating， her older sister insisted I would leave her when she gets old.
What about social status？ Did different ideas and interests caused by educational backgrounds influence your relationship？
Knight： We have good relationships with each other’s friends. However， both of us do spend time with some friends alone， which never jeopardizes our relationship.
Li： I like to go to the movies， and he goes with me sometimes. But he always falls asleep halfway through. He likes to play mahjong， so I learned to play it. But I get upset when I play poorly and lose money， so I’m not really into that game. The point is， we compromise for each other and both contribute to the relationship.
Knight， you claim to be warm-hearted， loyal and hot-tempered， all typical male qualities. Li， is this what attracted you to him？ Have your personalities changed over the years？
Li： His masculine qualities are even more evident than in some men. Of course I am attracted to these qualities. He is an interesting and responsible person and I am having great fun with him. The fact that I am attracted to these qualities illustrates that I am a heterosexual women.
Knight： I am always fighting， physically， I mean. I used to fight with others for my girlfriends， but since I got together with Li， I have changed a lot. We seldom quarrel.
Do you two act as father and mother with your kid？
Knight： I act as both father and moth- er （laugh）. She spends less time with him and isn’t as patient as me.
Li： The kid calls us both “mom” and Knight acts like the man of the house. He only listens to Knight.
In recent years， media reports about Li still mentioned her late husband Wang Xiaobo. How does Knight feel about this？ Is it uncomfortable？
Knight： Wang was and is a really famous writer. It’s natural the media always mentions him. I like Wang and I think his widow has good taste in men.
Li： When we had just started and Knight was a taxi driver， I was always finding my late husband’s books in his car. To this day， I don’t know if it was just for show or if he was really reading the books.
Knight： Of course I was reading the books！ I wanted to know if Chen Qingyang， the heroine in Wang’s novel Golden Age， was based on you. But I didn’t finish Silver Age.
In late 2014， Li， who had shied away from the public eye in recent years， again jumped into the spotlight. On December 14， 2014， an internet post accusing her of“cheating the public” popped up. The post claimed that Li was actually a lesbian and living with a female partner for years. Several days later， on her blog， Li responded and revealed that her partner of 17 years is a female-to-male transsexual known only as “Knight.” Li elaborated that although“Knight” had undergone partial sexual reassignment surgery， Li identifies herself as fully heterosexual. The announcement stirred huge waves of strong support as well as criticism. The identity of her partner， a former taxi driver 12 years Li’s junior， made the announcement even more“appalling” to many. As homosexuals are starting to find more acceptance， the vast majority of the Chinese public isn’t aware that a transgender group even exists. For the first time， Li and her partner sparked national-wide discussion about the group.
Li， as a heterosexual woman， how did you accept the transsexual identity of Knight？
Knight： It’s never been a problem for me. The whole thing has been smooth and natural.
Li Yinhe （Li）： I got used to it very quickly. Perhaps a factor is that I am a researcher in related fields， so I know what’s going on there. I didn’t think too much about it and love him as a man.
Knight， why wouldn’t you identify yourself as a lesbian？
Knight： In my early years， I thought I was a lesbian. I hung out with lesbians in order to find a partner. Eventually， I started feeling weird because I just wasn’t really interested in lesbians and couldn’t find chemistry with anyone. Before Li， I had another long-time girlfriend， and she is also heterosexual.
Li： The transgender group is a minority group of the minority LGBT community. Many people confuse the concept of transgender with lesbian or gay. Actually， sexual reassignment is about gender identity – their behavior doesn’t conform to what is typically associated with the gender they were assigned at birth. Being gay only refers to sexual attraction to the same gender. Knight， do you feel comfortable with your current body？ Do you have identity issues？ Why did you choose sexual reassignment surgery and why only part of it？ Do you do it for Li？
Knight： Actually， I am OK with myself and don’t worry that I am different from most. Even when I was young， I didn’t suffer much pressure. My parents are nice and they never push me. I chose the reassignment surgery because I really wanted to be a real man. I don’t like breasts. Personally， I wanted the complete surgery because that was the only way I would be allowed to change the gender on my ID. Li objected. She insisted that the technology wasn’t yet mature and worried about complications.
Li： I am OK with his body. I actually tried to persuade him to give up the whole surgery idea. But he really couldn’t accept that part of his body， so I didn’t stop him. Further surgery would have required hormone treatment， which can be more problematic. These things can be harmful to his health. Why should people voluntarily do anything harmful to their health？
Did you ever think “she/he is the one” when you began to date？ Has your relationship gradually matured through ups and downs？
Li： From the very beginning， I believed he was the one. And I’ve never had any second thoughts.
Knight： I thought she was my Miss Right years ago. Although I also found one or two other women attractive in the 17 years we’ve been together， I always told her and we talked about the problem.
Do you mind the absence of a marriage certificate？
Knight： I don’t care about that paper. However， a lack of a legally-binding marriage does cause a lot of problems. For example， we don’t have joint custody of our adopted son. Custody could only be in one name. If one of us needs surgery， the other can’t give consent. And of course there are problems related to property. For many years， she has been calling for legalization of homosexual marriage in China. But I don’t think we’re going to live to see that happen.
Li： You can’t say that for sure. Taiwan is already making rapid progress in this aspect and we all have hope. Besides， in many ways， I think China’s soil for sexual culture is actually superior to the West because China doesn’t have as deep-rooted homophobia as some countries. Chinese people have become more tolerant of homosexuals in recent years.
Is the 12-year age gap a bigger issue？ Li： I don’t think so. I am the older one taking advantage of him. He is a responsible guy and I never worry about the age gap.
Knight： I don’t think the age gap is a problem. When we just started dating， her older sister insisted I would leave her when she gets old.
What about social status？ Did different ideas and interests caused by educational backgrounds influence your relationship？
Knight： We have good relationships with each other’s friends. However， both of us do spend time with some friends alone， which never jeopardizes our relationship.
Li： I like to go to the movies， and he goes with me sometimes. But he always falls asleep halfway through. He likes to play mahjong， so I learned to play it. But I get upset when I play poorly and lose money， so I’m not really into that game. The point is， we compromise for each other and both contribute to the relationship.
Knight， you claim to be warm-hearted， loyal and hot-tempered， all typical male qualities. Li， is this what attracted you to him？ Have your personalities changed over the years？
Li： His masculine qualities are even more evident than in some men. Of course I am attracted to these qualities. He is an interesting and responsible person and I am having great fun with him. The fact that I am attracted to these qualities illustrates that I am a heterosexual women.
Knight： I am always fighting， physically， I mean. I used to fight with others for my girlfriends， but since I got together with Li， I have changed a lot. We seldom quarrel.
Do you two act as father and mother with your kid？
Knight： I act as both father and moth- er （laugh）. She spends less time with him and isn’t as patient as me.
Li： The kid calls us both “mom” and Knight acts like the man of the house. He only listens to Knight.
In recent years， media reports about Li still mentioned her late husband Wang Xiaobo. How does Knight feel about this？ Is it uncomfortable？
Knight： Wang was and is a really famous writer. It’s natural the media always mentions him. I like Wang and I think his widow has good taste in men.
Li： When we had just started and Knight was a taxi driver， I was always finding my late husband’s books in his car. To this day， I don’t know if it was just for show or if he was really reading the books.
Knight： Of course I was reading the books！ I wanted to know if Chen Qingyang， the heroine in Wang’s novel Golden Age， was based on you. But I didn’t finish Silver Age.