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Renee Montagne: We can tell you that a few anachronisms have made their way into the series, and spotting them has become a hobby for many fans. Joining us, as he does occasionally, is linguist Ben Zimmer. He’s the executive producer of [1]Visual 2)Thesaurus and a language 3)columnist for the Boston Globe.
Good morning.
Ben Zimmer: Good morning. Renee: Now, how would we welcome you appropriately if we were doing this interview in the England of, say, 1916? Ben: (laughing) That’s a good question. You know, I have to admit that I can’t magically transport myself back to that time to know how people are speaking. It’s much easier to take some dialogue that has been created for something like this and then try to see: Well, did they really say that?
蕾妮·蒙塔那：我们发现剧中有些台词“穿越”了，不少粉丝更是以挖掘这些“错乱台词”为乐。今天请来的嘉宾是，是偶有上来我们节目的语言学家本·齐默。他是可视化电子词典的执行监制，同时也是《波士顿环球邮报》的语言话题专栏作家。
早上好！
本·齐默：早上好。
蕾妮：如果我们这个采访是，譬如说，在1916年的英国进行的，我们的欢迎辞该是怎么个说法呢？本：（笑）这个问题问得好。其实，我得承认自己无力施展魔法回到过去了解当时的人们是怎么说话的。简单点的做法是检视史剧中的一些对话，看看那时候的人真会这样说话吗？也就是检测一
Renee: And that was Mrs. Patmore, the cook. Now, Ben, would she have said “when push comes to shove?”
Ben: She would definitely not have been familiar with
that expression. It does date to the late 19th century, but it was a strictly African-American expression for at least a few decades.
The Oxford English Dictionary has examples back to 1898. But if you look through the early 20th century, all the examples that we can find of the expression “when push comes to shove”come from African-American newspapers and other sources. And it really isn’t until after World War II or so that it spreads to more widespread usage. So it’s extremely unlikely that Mrs. Patmore would’ve been familiar with that expression and have used it in 1919.
蕾妮：那是厨娘帕特莫太太说的一句话。本，你来看看，她有可能说出“当轻推
变猛撞”这样的话吗？
本：她绝对是不可能熟知这一说法的。虽然这表达起源自十九世纪末，但至少在之后的好几十年里一直也只是非裔美国人之间会这么说。
《牛津英语大辞典》收录的相关例子最早可以追溯到1898年。但如果你查阅二十世纪初的资料，“当轻推变猛撞”这一表达全是出现在非裔美国人的报刊杂志等资料上，直到二战之后，这说法才开始广泛流传。所以说，帕特莫太太在1919年就脱口而出这么个表达是极为不可能的。
Good morning.
Ben Zimmer: Good morning. Renee: Now, how would we welcome you appropriately if we were doing this interview in the England of, say, 1916? Ben: (laughing) That’s a good question. You know, I have to admit that I can’t magically transport myself back to that time to know how people are speaking. It’s much easier to take some dialogue that has been created for something like this and then try to see: Well, did they really say that?
蕾妮·蒙塔那：我们发现剧中有些台词“穿越”了，不少粉丝更是以挖掘这些“错乱台词”为乐。今天请来的嘉宾是，是偶有上来我们节目的语言学家本·齐默。他是可视化电子词典的执行监制，同时也是《波士顿环球邮报》的语言话题专栏作家。
早上好！
本·齐默：早上好。
蕾妮：如果我们这个采访是，譬如说，在1916年的英国进行的，我们的欢迎辞该是怎么个说法呢？本：（笑）这个问题问得好。其实，我得承认自己无力施展魔法回到过去了解当时的人们是怎么说话的。简单点的做法是检视史剧中的一些对话，看看那时候的人真会这样说话吗？也就是检测一
Renee: And that was Mrs. Patmore, the cook. Now, Ben, would she have said “when push comes to shove?”
Ben: She would definitely not have been familiar with
that expression. It does date to the late 19th century, but it was a strictly African-American expression for at least a few decades.
The Oxford English Dictionary has examples back to 1898. But if you look through the early 20th century, all the examples that we can find of the expression “when push comes to shove”come from African-American newspapers and other sources. And it really isn’t until after World War II or so that it spreads to more widespread usage. So it’s extremely unlikely that Mrs. Patmore would’ve been familiar with that expression and have used it in 1919.
蕾妮：那是厨娘帕特莫太太说的一句话。本，你来看看，她有可能说出“当轻推
变猛撞”这样的话吗？
本：她绝对是不可能熟知这一说法的。虽然这表达起源自十九世纪末，但至少在之后的好几十年里一直也只是非裔美国人之间会这么说。
《牛津英语大辞典》收录的相关例子最早可以追溯到1898年。但如果你查阅二十世纪初的资料，“当轻推变猛撞”这一表达全是出现在非裔美国人的报刊杂志等资料上，直到二战之后，这说法才开始广泛流传。所以说，帕特莫太太在1919年就脱口而出这么个表达是极为不可能的。