记者:上一次您谈到目前国有企业所面临的困境时,提出存量调整要立足于“帕累托改进”的渐进方式,现在您可否具体谈谈这一问题?林毅夫:我认为要使存量调整阶段的改革做到平稳可控,必须从解决国有企业经营中的困境出发,通过硬化企业的预算约束,为企业创造公平充分的竞争条件,并在承认既成事实和既得利益的情况下,坚持改革策略的“帕累托改进”性质,具体讲包括以下几方面问题:第一、解除所有国有企业沉重的职工养老负担.因为在传统体制下,国家为实现最大限度地创造积累,对职工实行了低工资制.职工的工资只包括其就业期间的基本生活费,压低工资所产生的额外利润(职工退休后的养老费用),都通过统收统支的财务渠道进入政府财政,并转变为积累资金.因此,从理论 Reporter: When you last talked about the current difficulties faced by state-owned enterprises, it was proposed that stock adjustments should be based on a gradual approach of “Pareto improvement.” Can you discuss this issue now? Lin Yifu: I think we need to adjust stocks. The stage of reform is stable and controllable. It is necessary to proceed from solving the difficulties in the management of state-owned enterprises. By hardening the budget constraints of enterprises, create fair and sufficient competitive conditions for enterprises, and adhering to reforms in recognition of fait accompli and vested interests. The “Pareto improvement” nature of the strategy includes the following aspects: First, lift the heavy burden of pensions for all state-owned enterprises. Because under the traditional system, the state has implemented Low wage system. The employee’s salary includes only the basic living expenses during his employment period, and the extra profits generated by the reduction of wages (employee retirement expenses after retirement) all enter the government finance through the financial channels of unified revenue and expenditure, and are converted into accumulated funds. Therefore, from the theory