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Lindsay Johns： Michael， street slang is anathema to me， and I want it kept out of the classroom because， for me， and with the young people that I mentor down in Peckham in South London， I cou…I tell them “language is power.”
When I hear young people speaking street slang， they sound as if they’ve had an exceedingly painful frontal lobotomy. “Lully， innit？ Ye git me， bluds？ Yeah， basicallys.” They sound stupid and uneducated. I want the young people that I mentor to be taken seriously by those who have the power to take decisions， which can affect their lives the better. For better or for worse， Ed Miliband and David Cameron do not speak street slang. Michael Rosen： Well， it’s very interesting， and if we talk about street slang， it is only one kind of slang. Somebody like David Cameron， he spoke another kind of slang when he was at school. He spoke Eton slang. So when we talk about slangs， we have to be pretty careful， because we all talk slang. We have no evidence that simply speaking one kind of slang， or one kind of local dialect， actually prevents you from speaking another. We are all capable of being bi-dialectal， that’s to say speaking two kinds of language or more. So the key issue is why don’t your mates in Peckham choose to speak standard English， or maybe they can， and， or maybe they know how to， and choose not to. So that’s one of the key issues.
Lindsay： If street slang was the lingua franca of power and the key to social mobility in this country， I would be the first to advocate it to the young people that I mentor in Peckham. But it’s not， so I don’t. I personally am not a big fan of code-switching or cultural relativism， because I think that actually， under pressure， for example， in that all-important college， job or university interview， the young people revert to type. So they revert to street slang， and therefore it prejudices their application.
Michael： Now， as far as I understand it， you think you should ban it. Now， my view would be “no， you study it.”
Lindsay： I have a zero tolerance policy with my young mentees down in Peckham， and I try and correct the way they speak. So for example， if it’s basically “you get me，” “like，” “brov，” “cuz，” all those kinds of slang terms， I think they are best kept out of the classroom.
Michael： You， if you go to Shakespeare， you’ll find that Shakespeare uses the word “cuz.” Now， my starting point would be， if， let’s say， one of your friends uses the word “cuz，” and say， “Well， let’s have a look at that word ‘cuz.’ Let’s see what its history has been in the English language. Let’s have a look. Here in this scene in Shakespeare， in Romeo and Juliet， OK， there is…there’s street violence going on in Romeo and Juliet. Here is a fascinating way in which street slang is being used by a dramatist. Let’s look at it.” So， we start from the language that your students， your friends， are using， and we say，“Let’s have a look. Here is this vehicle of theatre， this…this vehicle of…of language， sometimes a vehicle of power， Shakespeare， and he’s using some of the similar language using， that…that you use.” Lindsay： I think that it’s very easy for liberal academics and writers， who are often， not always， but often cocooned in a very safe cossetted world and “ivory tower.” In my opinion I think it’s actually very hypocritical， because I think you’ll find that the majority， not all， but the majority of those liberal academics and writers， they themselves enjoyed the benefits of a “Rolls-Royce” humanities education， and， I’ll wager， with no slang whatsoever.
Michael： So how do you get from A to B？ How do you get from street slang to the way you’re speaking？ You see， this is the key issue. You start from the speech and the writing that your students have， and say， “Well look， here is another way of writing. Look， here it is in The Guardian newspaper. They don’t seem to be writing in the way you’re speaking. Why is that？” Simply banning won’t do the work. People have been trying to ban local speech， dialect， whether it’s Cockney， Geordie or whatever， they’ve been trying to ban it in education for over a hundred years. OK？ And the…the obvious survival of dialect in local speech is evidence that it has never worked.
林赛·约翰：迈克尔，我对街头俚语简直是深恶痛绝，我不想它污染了课堂。因为，你知道，我在伦敦南部的佩卡姆教书，我教导学生们“语言就是力量”。
学生们一说街头俚语，我就觉得他们经历了一场无比痛苦的前脑叶白質切除术。“很可爱，不是吗？明白了吗，好哥们儿？哟，差不多就这样。”听起来既愚蠢又缺乏教养。我希望我教的学生能让决策者认真对待，从而给他们的生活带来正面的影响。不管怎么说，现任工党党魁埃德·米利班德和首相大人戴维·卡梅伦可不说街头俚语。
迈克尔·罗森：嗯，你的想法很有趣。我们说的“街头俚语”只是俚语的一种。那些大人物，像卡梅伦，他学生时代说的是另一种俚语——伊顿俚语。所以对待俚语这个话题，我们应该严谨一点，毕竟所有人都说俚语。没有证据表明只说一种俚语或方言的人就不会说另一种。我们都有运用两种方言的能力，也就是说我们能说两种甚至更多种语言。因此，问题的关键在于为什么你的学生不说标准的英语。他们可能会说，或者知道怎么说，但不愿意说。这才是重点。
林赛：在这个国家，如果街头俚语是上层社会的通关密语，是平步青云的法门，那我肯定第一个赞成我的学生们说街头俚语。但事实不是这样，所以我不提倡。我个人不太喜欢“语言切换”的游戏，也不是文化相对主义的拥护者。我认为，面临压力的时候，比方说，参加一个特别重要的入学或工作面试时，年轻人会紧张得原形毕露，然后就会开始说街头俚语，这不利于他们的求学或求职。
迈克尔：现在以我的理解，你认为应该禁止使用街头俚语。而我的看法恰恰相反，你应该学习了解它。
林赛：我绝对不能容忍我在佩卡姆的学生说街头俚语，而且我在努力矫正他们的说话方式。所以像“你懂我”“呃”“老兄”“因伪”之类的不正规用法，我不希望在课堂上听到。
迈克尔：你若是翻阅莎士比亚的作品，就会发现他也用“因伪”这个词。我要说的是，假设你的朋友也说了“因伪”，我们可以这样说：“我们来看一下‘因伪’这个词在英语中的起源。我们一起来了解一下。在莎士比亚的《罗密欧与茱丽叶》中……嗯……有一幕戏描写的是街头暴力。这里的街头俚语用得多传神啊。让我们来看看他是怎么用的。”所以我们得先从你的学生、你的朋友所用的语言入手，我们说：“看，这种戏剧的表现手法，这种语言的桥梁，或者说是表现力，在莎士比亚的戏剧里，他也会用跟你们的街头俚语类似的表达。”
林赛：我认为自由派学者和作家通常，我并不是说一直如此，但他们通常都处于无人挑刺的安全地带或是高居象牙塔，因此他们可以随意地使用俚语。但在我看来，这种做法太虚伪了。因为你会发现他们中的大部分，当然不是全部，接受的其实是“精英式”的人文教育，而且我敢打赌，这些课程不会使用任何俚语。
迈克尔：那你要怎样从一种状态转换到另一种？你要怎么让那些说街头俚语的学生们像你一样说话呢？你知道，这才是关键所在。现在你的学生用街头俚语说话或写作，然后你说：“听着，我们还有另外一种写作方式。看，《卫报》用的就是这种方式，他们不会像你们说话那样来写作。为什么呢？”简单的明令禁止并不能起到什么效果。人们一直都试图废除土话或方言，包括伦敦东区话、泰恩赛德方言等。一百多年来人们都试图在教育领域中消除这些语言，对吧？但是这些方言还是存活了下来，这就证明了那根本是办不到的。
When I hear young people speaking street slang， they sound as if they’ve had an exceedingly painful frontal lobotomy. “Lully， innit？ Ye git me， bluds？ Yeah， basicallys.” They sound stupid and uneducated. I want the young people that I mentor to be taken seriously by those who have the power to take decisions， which can affect their lives the better. For better or for worse， Ed Miliband and David Cameron do not speak street slang. Michael Rosen： Well， it’s very interesting， and if we talk about street slang， it is only one kind of slang. Somebody like David Cameron， he spoke another kind of slang when he was at school. He spoke Eton slang. So when we talk about slangs， we have to be pretty careful， because we all talk slang. We have no evidence that simply speaking one kind of slang， or one kind of local dialect， actually prevents you from speaking another. We are all capable of being bi-dialectal， that’s to say speaking two kinds of language or more. So the key issue is why don’t your mates in Peckham choose to speak standard English， or maybe they can， and， or maybe they know how to， and choose not to. So that’s one of the key issues.
Lindsay： If street slang was the lingua franca of power and the key to social mobility in this country， I would be the first to advocate it to the young people that I mentor in Peckham. But it’s not， so I don’t. I personally am not a big fan of code-switching or cultural relativism， because I think that actually， under pressure， for example， in that all-important college， job or university interview， the young people revert to type. So they revert to street slang， and therefore it prejudices their application.
Michael： Now， as far as I understand it， you think you should ban it. Now， my view would be “no， you study it.”
Lindsay： I have a zero tolerance policy with my young mentees down in Peckham， and I try and correct the way they speak. So for example， if it’s basically “you get me，” “like，” “brov，” “cuz，” all those kinds of slang terms， I think they are best kept out of the classroom.
Michael： You， if you go to Shakespeare， you’ll find that Shakespeare uses the word “cuz.” Now， my starting point would be， if， let’s say， one of your friends uses the word “cuz，” and say， “Well， let’s have a look at that word ‘cuz.’ Let’s see what its history has been in the English language. Let’s have a look. Here in this scene in Shakespeare， in Romeo and Juliet， OK， there is…there’s street violence going on in Romeo and Juliet. Here is a fascinating way in which street slang is being used by a dramatist. Let’s look at it.” So， we start from the language that your students， your friends， are using， and we say，“Let’s have a look. Here is this vehicle of theatre， this…this vehicle of…of language， sometimes a vehicle of power， Shakespeare， and he’s using some of the similar language using， that…that you use.” Lindsay： I think that it’s very easy for liberal academics and writers， who are often， not always， but often cocooned in a very safe cossetted world and “ivory tower.” In my opinion I think it’s actually very hypocritical， because I think you’ll find that the majority， not all， but the majority of those liberal academics and writers， they themselves enjoyed the benefits of a “Rolls-Royce” humanities education， and， I’ll wager， with no slang whatsoever.
Michael： So how do you get from A to B？ How do you get from street slang to the way you’re speaking？ You see， this is the key issue. You start from the speech and the writing that your students have， and say， “Well look， here is another way of writing. Look， here it is in The Guardian newspaper. They don’t seem to be writing in the way you’re speaking. Why is that？” Simply banning won’t do the work. People have been trying to ban local speech， dialect， whether it’s Cockney， Geordie or whatever， they’ve been trying to ban it in education for over a hundred years. OK？ And the…the obvious survival of dialect in local speech is evidence that it has never worked.
林赛·约翰：迈克尔，我对街头俚语简直是深恶痛绝，我不想它污染了课堂。因为，你知道，我在伦敦南部的佩卡姆教书，我教导学生们“语言就是力量”。
学生们一说街头俚语，我就觉得他们经历了一场无比痛苦的前脑叶白質切除术。“很可爱，不是吗？明白了吗，好哥们儿？哟，差不多就这样。”听起来既愚蠢又缺乏教养。我希望我教的学生能让决策者认真对待，从而给他们的生活带来正面的影响。不管怎么说，现任工党党魁埃德·米利班德和首相大人戴维·卡梅伦可不说街头俚语。
迈克尔·罗森：嗯，你的想法很有趣。我们说的“街头俚语”只是俚语的一种。那些大人物，像卡梅伦，他学生时代说的是另一种俚语——伊顿俚语。所以对待俚语这个话题，我们应该严谨一点，毕竟所有人都说俚语。没有证据表明只说一种俚语或方言的人就不会说另一种。我们都有运用两种方言的能力，也就是说我们能说两种甚至更多种语言。因此，问题的关键在于为什么你的学生不说标准的英语。他们可能会说，或者知道怎么说，但不愿意说。这才是重点。
林赛：在这个国家，如果街头俚语是上层社会的通关密语，是平步青云的法门，那我肯定第一个赞成我的学生们说街头俚语。但事实不是这样，所以我不提倡。我个人不太喜欢“语言切换”的游戏，也不是文化相对主义的拥护者。我认为，面临压力的时候，比方说，参加一个特别重要的入学或工作面试时，年轻人会紧张得原形毕露，然后就会开始说街头俚语，这不利于他们的求学或求职。
迈克尔：现在以我的理解，你认为应该禁止使用街头俚语。而我的看法恰恰相反，你应该学习了解它。
林赛：我绝对不能容忍我在佩卡姆的学生说街头俚语，而且我在努力矫正他们的说话方式。所以像“你懂我”“呃”“老兄”“因伪”之类的不正规用法，我不希望在课堂上听到。
迈克尔：你若是翻阅莎士比亚的作品，就会发现他也用“因伪”这个词。我要说的是，假设你的朋友也说了“因伪”，我们可以这样说：“我们来看一下‘因伪’这个词在英语中的起源。我们一起来了解一下。在莎士比亚的《罗密欧与茱丽叶》中……嗯……有一幕戏描写的是街头暴力。这里的街头俚语用得多传神啊。让我们来看看他是怎么用的。”所以我们得先从你的学生、你的朋友所用的语言入手，我们说：“看，这种戏剧的表现手法，这种语言的桥梁，或者说是表现力，在莎士比亚的戏剧里，他也会用跟你们的街头俚语类似的表达。”
林赛：我认为自由派学者和作家通常，我并不是说一直如此，但他们通常都处于无人挑刺的安全地带或是高居象牙塔，因此他们可以随意地使用俚语。但在我看来，这种做法太虚伪了。因为你会发现他们中的大部分，当然不是全部，接受的其实是“精英式”的人文教育，而且我敢打赌，这些课程不会使用任何俚语。
迈克尔：那你要怎样从一种状态转换到另一种？你要怎么让那些说街头俚语的学生们像你一样说话呢？你知道，这才是关键所在。现在你的学生用街头俚语说话或写作，然后你说：“听着，我们还有另外一种写作方式。看，《卫报》用的就是这种方式，他们不会像你们说话那样来写作。为什么呢？”简单的明令禁止并不能起到什么效果。人们一直都试图废除土话或方言，包括伦敦东区话、泰恩赛德方言等。一百多年来人们都试图在教育领域中消除这些语言，对吧？但是这些方言还是存活了下来，这就证明了那根本是办不到的。