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Most people only know that， as a cradle of Sangha， Fo Guang Shan Tsunglin University has cultivated batches of Buddhism researchers in past 50 years and developed a school of its own in world Buddhism research. They hardly realize that， Tsunglin University is more than a palace of Buddhism and plays an important role in livelihood education and life education of social youths. The reporter makes an exclusive interview on Master Yongguang， President of FGS Tsunglin University and tries to uncover a deeper layer of Fo Guang Shan education system of “Engaged Buddhism”.
大多数人都只知，佛光山丛林学院作为僧伽的摇篮，50年来培养出一批又一批的佛学研究人员，在世界佛学研究领域独树一帜。殊不知，丛林学院不止是佛学的殿堂，在开展社会青年生活教育和生命教育方面更是扮演了重要的角色。为此本刊记者专访了丛林学院院长永光法师，试图揭开佛光山“人间佛教”教育体系的深层含义。
UNITY： As a Buddhist college， how does Tsunglin University choose its education focus for cultivating the younger generation？
Master Yongguang： Fo Guang Shan has always given priority to education. The first building here is the school， namely Tsunglin University. When students come， they need a hall for morning and evening classes. Hence the Great Mercy Temple is built later.
UNITY：丛林学院作为一所佛学院，她在培养青年一代的问题上是如何选择教育重点的？
永光法师：佛光山一向以教育为主，佛光山的第一个建筑就是学校，即丛林学院，当这些学生们来到丛林学院之后，发现早晚课需要有殿堂，因此才有了后来的大悲殿建筑。
Here are two main features of Tsunglin University： the first one is we admit social youths， which is the biggest difference from other Buddhist colleges. Generally speaking， Buddhist colleges are only for monks or nuns， that is to say graduates there must become monks or nuns. 30 year ago， when I was a teacher here， I doubted the admission of social youths. My opinion was simple that， if the graduates could not join our team of clergies in the future and leave us after three years of study， then our hard cultivation would be wasted. But Master Hsing Yun told me that， seeds don't have to blossom and yield fruit here but all around the world. If young people could get correct understanding of Buddhism after systematic and deep study in our university， then they would play a good guiding role when going back to the society.
丛林学院有两大特色：一是学院会招收社会青年，这是与其他佛学院最大的区别，一般来讲，佛学院只面向出家人，换句话说从佛学院毕业的学生一定要出家。30年前我在做教师的时候对丛林学院招收社会青年这一问题上也有过疑问，我的想法很简单，就是如果佛学院的学生将来不能加入我们的僧侣团队，三年之后就要学成离开的话，那我们的辛勤栽培岂不是付诸东流了？但是星云大师却告诉我一个道理，种子不一定要在这里开花结果，他到世界各地都可以开花结果的，如果青年们在我们这里经过一个系统、深入的学习之后，对佛教有一个正确的认识，即使将来回归社会也能起到一个非常好的引导作用。
The second is Tsunglin University pays much attention to students’ livelihood education. Many youths are spoiled at home， and when they come here we ask them to start everything from scratch. These days a batch of new students just enrolled. Apparently they couldn't keep up with the pace of life and they try very hard to adapt to the new life. In fact， our purpose is very simple and we just want to let them learn from life. The university has kept advocating “focusing on behavior and understanding and cultivating one’s blessing and wisdom”. Some has read a lot of books and is wealthy in knowledge， but lags behind in actual life operation. He is used to interacting with books but has deficiency in interaction with people， especially in team spirit. I often speak to them that， when I was in Fo Guang Shan during early days， we five people needed to cook for 300 people within an hour. We were young at that time and couldn’t understand it， and then we asked Master Hsing Yun why we didn’t use gas tanks but firewood to cook since gas tanks were sold outside. He told us that， he did have money to buy gas tanks， but his purpose was tempering us.
The higher education background， the less time one would spend on life. Master Hsing Yun often says to us that， we should use the most original methods for cultivation and the most advanced methods for Buddhism promotion. You will see there are only a desk， a plank bed， a closet， a bookcase and an electric fan in our living place. Life is very easy here. It is actually a concept of life training and daily actions like going out， living， sitting and lying is a way of cultivation.
第二，丛林学院非常注重学生的生活教育。现在很多青年在家娇生惯养，那么来到这里我们就要求他们一切从头开始。这些天刚好有一批新学员入学，可以看到他们的生活节奏明显跟不上，都是非常吃力的在适应新的生活。其实我们生活教育的目的很简单，就是希望从生活上让他们学习。丛林学院一直在提倡“行解并重，福慧双修”，有的人书本读的非常多，学富五车，但是实际的生活操作就不见得如何了，他已经习惯于和书本的互动，但是在与人的互动这一点上，尤其是团队的精神上极其欠缺。
我经常跟他们讲，早期我来佛光山的时候，我们5个人要煮饭给300人吃，而且必须是在一个小时之内，我们那时候也很年轻，对这件事非常不理解，我们就问星云大师，外面有卖瓦斯的，我们为什么不用瓦斯而是要烧柴火呢？大师告诉我们，我不是没有钱买瓦斯，我的目的是磨练你们。
学历越高的人，花费在生活上的时间相对来说就越少一些。大师也经常和我们讲，在修行这个问题上我们要使用最原始的方法，弘法则使用最先进的。所以你就会看到，我们居住的地方，只有一张桌子，一个木板床，顶多一个衣橱和书橱，一个电风扇，如此而已，生活非常简单。这其实就是在训练生活的一个理念，日常的行住坐卧就是让你修行的一个途径。
We also foster team spirit and the notion of service and sacrifice. Students of Tsunglin University are very willing to support when there are big activities in Fo Guang Shan. They can pick up vegetables， clean and serve the dishes， and students are happy to take part in.
When having the experience here， the youths would grow up in a very healthy way， no matter later they become monks or nuns or not. Another aspect is life education， which is to let them have deeper understanding about life. So life education and livelihood education are two important characters of our university.
还有我刚刚讲的培养团队精神，有服务和奉献的理念。我们丛林学院的学生每逢佛光山有大型活动的时候，就非常愿意去支援，支援的途径有很多，比如择菜、打扫、行堂等，学生们都愿意参与其中。
其实这一系列生活下来之后，孩子会得到一个非常健康的成长，不管是出家还是在家。再者就是生命的教育，让他们对生命有一个更深入的了解和认识，因此生命的教育和生活的教育就是我们丛林学院最重要的特点。
UNITY： What are the prospects of future development for graduates of Tsunglin University？
Master Yongguang： This question should be answered from the perspective of students’ composition of our university. Our students come from 16 countries and we don’t only train students who speak Chinese that it is truly an international university. So we have a very broad vision and it is very important for the form of belief and the recognition and promotion of Buddhism. Master Hsing Yun builds a broad platform for students in this university. They would not become unemployed after graduation that they can join in TV stations， newspapers and galleries to use their skills， and also if they want to seek chances around the world， the university would provide opportunities for them. There are five students learning French in this semester and Master Hsing Yun wants to send them to France to further their studies and communicate. But since they are not monks or nuns and will not be monks or nuns in the future， others have put forward objections. But Master Hsing Yun is a real educator that he believes equal education of youths. He insists the idea and when the local temple is built， the students all offer to help. In Tsunglin University， Master Hsing Yun often gives students stages to broaden their horizons. UNITY：丛林学院的学生将来毕业以后的发展方向是哪里呢？
永光法师：要回答这个问题得从丛林学院的学生构成来说，我们的学生来自全世界16个国家，可不是单单只培养说中文的学生，是一所名副其实的国际性大学，所以大家在一起交流学习的时候视野自然就很开阔，这对于信仰的养成，对佛教的一个认知与发扬非常重要。在这所学院里，星云大师为学生们搭建平台，像电视台、报纸、美术馆等都有可以发挥自己一技之长的地方，而且如果你的意愿是要到世界各地去寻求发展，学院也是非常愿意给别人机会的。学院这学期就来了五位会法语的学生，星云大师希望把他们送去法国去深造、交流，但是因为他们是在家众，就是将来不选择出家途径的学生，针对这一问题也有人提出过异议，但是星云大师是一位真正的教育家，他对青年的教育是平等的，他坚持让他们出国学习，结果是，佛光山的寺院在法国当地落成后，这些学生纷纷主动前去帮忙。在丛林学院，大师会经常为学生们提供舞台，开拓他们的视野。
UNITY： It has been 50 years since the establishment of Tsunglin University. How does it develop from a cradle of Sangha at first place into an international university today？
Master Yongguang： Tsunglin University starts from the time of Shoushan Temple. In 1965， “Shoushan Buddhist College” was built in Shoushan Temple， Fo Guang Shan and it was the starting point of Sangha education here. At that time， Master Hsing Yun reformed many shortcomings of Buddhist education like lack of education plans and teaching materials and narrow minds of students， in order to cultivate Buddhism specialists for education， culture and charity and realize the purposes of heart purification and social harmony. Buddhist education in Taiwan began to be completed since then.
UNITY：丛林学院迄今已有50年的历史了，从最初定位于僧伽摇篮逐渐发展到今天的国际学院是如何一步步发展起来的？
永光法师：丛林学院始自寿山寺时期。1965年，“寿山佛学院”于佛光山寿山寺创建，是佛光山僧伽教育的起点。当时星云大师为造就佛教专才，以从事佛教教育、文化、慈善等事业，达到人心之净化，社会安和乐利为宗旨，改革了当时佛教教育的诸多弊病，如：缺乏教学计划、教材，及学生思想不够开放等，而让台湾的佛教教育制度开始健全。
“Shoushan Buddhist College” changed into “Oriental Buddhist College” in 1967 and reformed Buddhist education system and established a system of three levels in 1989. Tsunglin University is equal to the college education. Though the system is very completed， the school operation is not smooth at first. We only recruit monks or nuns in early days for spreading knowledge to each temple， but for various reasons， students are not that much. Students enrollment becomes a large resistance， but we insist on down.
50 years later， Tsunglin University shoulders the education inheritance of the whole Fo Guang Shan system， and 90% of students here graduate from Buddhist College. But their school durations are various. Since many monks or nuns have higher degree nowadays， they need to study for half to one year and if teachers think they can master knowledge at a fast speed and get deep understanding of the true meaning of life， then they could leave to service.
We have 15 departments all over the world. Taking the department in India as an example， it is found by Master Huixian and exclusively recruits little monks of Shakya. Buddha belongs to Shakya. There are more than 30 little monks and Master Huixian has a famous saying， “I believe a father’s shoulder coming from shouldering responsibilities”. As he is only over 30， it is not easy for him to raise 30 monks. The department is affirmed by the government and after finishing school students need to take examinations. 1967年“寿山佛学院”更名为“东方佛教学院”，并于1989年进行佛教教育学制的改革，建立三级层次的佛教教育制度。丛林学院便相当于大学教育。虽然教育体制非常完善，但是一开始学校的运行并不顺利，由于最早学院招收的学生是出家众，出发点是给各个寺院的僧众传播知识，但是由于种种原因，送来受教的僧众并不是很多。招生难成为我们的一大阻力，但是我们坚持了下来。
50年之后的今天，丛林学院已经承担了整个佛光山体系的教育传承任务，佛光山上的出家众百分之九十九都是佛学院毕业的。当然他们当中有的人在读的时间长，有的在读的时间短，因为现在很多出家众都有着较高的学历，所以一般情况这些高学历的人进到佛学院要学习半年到一年，如果老师觉得他们掌握知识速度比较快，对生活的真谛体会的比较深刻，那么他们就可以出来服务了。
目前我们在全世界建立有15个学部，以我们在印度创办的学部为例，是慧显法师创办的，专门招收释迦族的小沙弥，佛陀就是释迦族的，现在那里的小沙弥有30几个，他有一句名言，“我相信父亲的肩膀是撑出来的。”因为他本身也只有30几岁，要养30多个小沙弥着实不是一件容易的事情。这个学部的教育是经过政府认定的，在学院学习完后，要去政府参加考试。
UNITY： How many departments like this in the world？
Master Yongguang： We have this kind of departments in the USA and Japan. But in South Africa and the Philippines， because of the limits of sites， we could only recruit 40 students for those high school graduates from countryside who are good at learning but cannot afford future studies. When recruiting students this time， 17 principals brought 300 qualified ones to the interview.
UNITY：类似这样的学部在全世界有多少？
永光法师：类似这样的学部在美国、日本等国家都有，而在南非、菲律宾佛学院因为场地的关系，就只有40个名额，只能提供给高中毕业，学习成绩好，但是没有条件再继续读书的乡下孩子。他们这次去招生，17个学校的校长竟然带着他审核过的300个学生前来面试。
As we just mentioned， Tsunglin University is mainly focus on livelihood education and life education. After this， those who can go to university may continue their study and others could find jobs. If they want to stay in Buddhism they could stay. So masters in the international departments all transcend religions. They would not do not want to teach students in the Philippines since it is a Catholic country， as long as the students are willing to be educated. Most of the students are 18 or 19 years old who study very hard. The departments would subsidize them to go to college if they are capable and our fifth university will be built in the Philippines. There are five universities， three middle and primary schools， five kindergartens and 16 Buddhist colleges and they are all built by Master Hsing Yun， who thinks only education can bring progress for the country， the society and the people.
我们刚刚提及过，丛林学院主要是要教会学生对生活的教育，对生命体验的教育，而当结束了这两个教育之后，能升大学的继续去上大学，没有办法继续上大学的就去找工作，愿意留在佛教的就留在佛教，所以这些国际性的学校大师已经跨越了宗教。他不会觉得菲律宾是天主教国家，而不愿意培养，只要他们愿意接受教育。现在那些佛学院的孩子大多就是18、19岁，都是很认真的在读书，如果他们有能力考大学，学院也会资助考大学，所以我们第五间大学要在菲律宾办。现在整个佛光山的教育体系是5间大学，3间中小学，5间幼稚园，16间佛学院，这些都是没有上过学校的星云大师所创办的，他认为国家、社会、人唯有教育才能进步。
UNITY： The school motto of Tsunglin University is “Compassion， Wisdom， Vows and Cultivation”. Can you give us a further explanation about it？ Master Yongguang： Master Hsing Yun pays much attention to youths and always gives them opportunities. He often encourages us that， the four Bodhisattvas， namely Ksitigarbha， Avalokitesvara， Manjusri and Samantabhadra， are all youths. Youths have power， which is called “youths’ strength and Bodhisattva’s heart”. Master Hsing Yun says to youths that， the four Bodhisattvas are our spiritual support. Avalokitesvara shows great compassion， Ksitigarbha shows great vows， Manjusri shows great cultivation and Samantabhadra shows great wisdom. So the palace for nuns is the Great Mercy Temple and that for monks is the Great Wisdom Temple and Master Hsing Yun wants us to learn from them.
UNITY：丛林学院的校训是“悲智愿行”，请法师进一步阐述其所表达的意义是什么？
永光法师：星云大师对于青年都很用心，都给青年机会，大师经常勉励我们，四个菩萨也是青年，地藏菩萨，观音菩萨，文殊菩萨，普贤菩萨，青年拥有着力量，所谓“青年力，菩萨心”，星云大师常常告诉这些青年，四大菩萨是我们的精神，观音菩萨显示出来的是大悲，地藏菩萨是愿力，普贤菩萨是大行，文殊菩萨就是智慧，所以女众的殿堂是大悲殿，男众的殿堂就是大智殿，大师希望我们效仿他们的精神。
What the society needs most is compassion. Master Hsing Yun always reminds us that we should never give up anyone. He is definitely a great educator who teaches students in accordance of their aptitude. I once met a very talkative student， but as teachers， we prefer quiet and cautious ones. Master sent him to the Pilgrim Hall for monastery reception. Then he became very famous in this regard in Fo Guang Shan. It tells us that， we should not only see a person’s disadvantages， but dig the advantages to let everybody fully display his talents.
Here is another example. Students may ask for leave sometimes. A student asked for three days， and normally we would allow him to rest for one day. But he insisted on three days while Master Hsing Yun actually allowed him to rest for a week. In fact， the student went back to school within two days. It tells us that do not easily refuse someone’s request but offer him “better” options. Teaching needs methods. When having class， some younger students may fall asleep and others would raise objections. And then Master would say as long as it doesn't affect others， he can sleep during class and when he wakes up he may hear a word or two and learn something as well.
For those students who are naughty and sleeping in class， most of the teachers turn to punish them. But Master Hsing Yun tells us that， do not punish them by incensing or penalty kneeling. Because once we often use these physical punishments to deal with them， they would have fear and resistance towards them when they grow up. So we can change another way， like asking them to sleep in class. How could it be possible when having class？ And they would become obedient later. Education needs methods and educator needs compassion. Never give up any students easily. 其实现在的社会最需要的就是慈悲心，大师常常提醒我们说，不舍弃每一个众生，星云大师确实是一个非常伟大的教育家，他用特别的教育方法教育每一个学生。我曾经遇到过一个非常喜欢说话的学生，作为一名老师，我们一向是比较喜欢乖巧慎言的学生。但是大师就将其派去朝山会馆，去做知客，后来呢，他果然就成了佛光山一流的知客。这件事也教育了我们所有的人，看一个人不要只看到他的缺点，要善于挖掘一个人的优点才能人尽其才。
再比如，有时会有学生请假，请三天，一般来讲，我们会允许他休息一天就可以了，但是他仍然执意要休息3天，星云大师竟然允许他休息一周，事实上那个学生只有不到2天就回到了学校。这件事大师告诉我们的道理是，遇到别人的请求，不要轻易地拒绝他，要学会用“好”来代替，教育要讲究方法。还有就是在我们学生上课的时候，有的学生因为年龄比较小，特别调皮，就在上课的时间睡着了，这样别的学生就会跟老师提出异议，大师这时候就会说，他睡觉只要不影响到其他人就可以了，等他睡醒了自然也会听进去一两句，也可以学到东西的。
我们大部分老师遇到这些调皮的、上课睡觉的学生都想着去惩罚他们，但是大师却告诫我们，不要用点香罚跪的办法去惩罚这些孩子，因为一旦经常用这些身体的惩罚方式去处理他们，等他们长大以后一定会在心理上对这些产生惧怕和抵触，因此我们何不换一种方式，比如罚他们去睡觉，你想，这边在上课他怎么会睡得着呢？然后从此以后就变得很乖了。教育也要讲究方式，教育者要有一颗慈悲之心，不轻易放弃任何一个徒弟、一个学生。
UNITY： What is the whole development trend of Tsunglin University？
Master Yongguang： The largest number of people in our school reached more than 800. Firstly， I think the quality and degree of students here are improving as a whole. Former students came here at the age of 16 after graduation from high school， but now they are all elites. Here is a joke. Not long ago we carried out temple experiencing camp and short-term monks （nuns） activities to let them experience 7days’ monks’ （nuns’） life. One day， Master Hsing Yun asked me how many students we recruited， and my answer was about 100. I hoped he can make a speech for us， but he only makes speech when there are more than 1000 people. How did I persuade him？ I just told him that the 100 people are all elites including doctoral students from National Taiwan University and Peking University， and Master went happily to make a speech for them.
UNITY：丛林学院整体的发展趋势是什么？
永光法师：我们学校人数最多的时候达到800多人。首先，我觉得现在来读佛学院的学生的素质和学历都是在整体提升。以前的学生国中毕业16岁就来读书了，现在来的都是属于精英。我讲一个小笑话，前段时间我们办寺院体验营，还有短期出家活动，让他们体验7天的出家生活。一天大师问我一共招收了多少学生时，我回答是大概100人左右，我是非常希望大师能来给大家做演讲，但是大师告诉我他当时演讲的时候都是有1000多人来参加，所以让我等参加的人数到1000人才可以，但是我是怎么劝说大师的呢？我说这次来的100多人都是精英，有台大的博士生，北大的博士生，那大师就非常高兴地来给大家授课去了。
Secondly， in early days， it was hard for parents to accept their children becoming monks or nuns or studying Buddhism， because at that time Buddhism belonged to folk beliefs of the minority， especially for elder people. But a while back， 28 students applied for becoming monks （nuns）， and there even was a female. Her mother was very happy for this and announced the news to relatives and friends. She even held banquet of four tables to celebrate her daughter marring Buddhism. Everyone is in a happy mood to look at learning Buddhism. I just want to say people have had correct attitude and understanding of Buddhism nowadays. 另一点是在早期的时候，如果我们和父母讲要出家、学佛，家长一般都很难接受，因为这在当时毕竟还属于少数人的民俗信仰，尤其以年龄较大的人为主。但是，前阵子居然有28位申请出家，甚至有一位女士，她母亲非常高兴地跟其亲朋好友宣布消息称，她女儿要出家了，嫁给佛门，还办了四桌宴席，大家都是以一种欢喜的心情来看待学佛这件事情。其实我想说的是，现在的时代已经对佛学有了一个很正确的态度和认识。
UNITY： Should the students here be monks or nuns after graduation？
Master Yongguang： In general， students need to study here for three years but they would not necessarily become monks or nuns in the future. In our perspective， we do hope the university can adhere to the Master's expectations to let youths study through Buddhist College and ascend their understanding of livelihood and life to a new stage. There are too many things for young people to choose today. If they could experience this kind of learning， actually it would be helpful for our country， Buddhism and the whole world， since at least， they would not make troubles. Now many people always focus on “themselves” and let their own ideas dominant. We hope that by Buddhist education， they can purify themselves and start to help people around. Take yesterday’s volunteer sodality as an example， the prize presentation lasted from 1：30 to 4：00 since there are too many award winners. They work as volunteers for 200 hours， 400 hours， 800 hours and 1000 hours a year and show the understanding of service and dedication.
UNITY：那从学院毕业的学生将来一定要出家吗？
永光法师：学生一般在这里要学习三年，但是并不一定将来出家。从学院的角度讲，我们是真的希望秉承大师的期望，让青年通过佛学院这个通道来这边读书，然后把自己对生活、生命的认识提升到一个新的阶段。我们现在的年轻人可以选择的东西太多，如果他们能够接受这样的学习，其实对于我们国家、对于佛教，还是对于整个世界都有帮助的，至少他不会制造问题。而且现在很多人说话都是在一直强调“我”，自我的想法占到了主导，我们希望通过佛学教育让他们对自己有一个净化，通过对佛学的养成，进而可以去帮助周围的人。以昨天的义工联谊会为例，我从下午一点半颁奖一直到四点，因为获奖的人实在太多了。在一年的时间里，他们有的做义工200小时，或者400小时，800小时，甚至1000小时。这就充分体现了人们对于服务奉献的理解。
大多数人都只知，佛光山丛林学院作为僧伽的摇篮，50年来培养出一批又一批的佛学研究人员，在世界佛学研究领域独树一帜。殊不知，丛林学院不止是佛学的殿堂，在开展社会青年生活教育和生命教育方面更是扮演了重要的角色。为此本刊记者专访了丛林学院院长永光法师，试图揭开佛光山“人间佛教”教育体系的深层含义。
UNITY： As a Buddhist college， how does Tsunglin University choose its education focus for cultivating the younger generation？
Master Yongguang： Fo Guang Shan has always given priority to education. The first building here is the school， namely Tsunglin University. When students come， they need a hall for morning and evening classes. Hence the Great Mercy Temple is built later.
UNITY：丛林学院作为一所佛学院，她在培养青年一代的问题上是如何选择教育重点的？
永光法师：佛光山一向以教育为主，佛光山的第一个建筑就是学校，即丛林学院，当这些学生们来到丛林学院之后，发现早晚课需要有殿堂，因此才有了后来的大悲殿建筑。
Here are two main features of Tsunglin University： the first one is we admit social youths， which is the biggest difference from other Buddhist colleges. Generally speaking， Buddhist colleges are only for monks or nuns， that is to say graduates there must become monks or nuns. 30 year ago， when I was a teacher here， I doubted the admission of social youths. My opinion was simple that， if the graduates could not join our team of clergies in the future and leave us after three years of study， then our hard cultivation would be wasted. But Master Hsing Yun told me that， seeds don't have to blossom and yield fruit here but all around the world. If young people could get correct understanding of Buddhism after systematic and deep study in our university， then they would play a good guiding role when going back to the society.
丛林学院有两大特色：一是学院会招收社会青年，这是与其他佛学院最大的区别，一般来讲，佛学院只面向出家人，换句话说从佛学院毕业的学生一定要出家。30年前我在做教师的时候对丛林学院招收社会青年这一问题上也有过疑问，我的想法很简单，就是如果佛学院的学生将来不能加入我们的僧侣团队，三年之后就要学成离开的话，那我们的辛勤栽培岂不是付诸东流了？但是星云大师却告诉我一个道理，种子不一定要在这里开花结果，他到世界各地都可以开花结果的，如果青年们在我们这里经过一个系统、深入的学习之后，对佛教有一个正确的认识，即使将来回归社会也能起到一个非常好的引导作用。
The second is Tsunglin University pays much attention to students’ livelihood education. Many youths are spoiled at home， and when they come here we ask them to start everything from scratch. These days a batch of new students just enrolled. Apparently they couldn't keep up with the pace of life and they try very hard to adapt to the new life. In fact， our purpose is very simple and we just want to let them learn from life. The university has kept advocating “focusing on behavior and understanding and cultivating one’s blessing and wisdom”. Some has read a lot of books and is wealthy in knowledge， but lags behind in actual life operation. He is used to interacting with books but has deficiency in interaction with people， especially in team spirit. I often speak to them that， when I was in Fo Guang Shan during early days， we five people needed to cook for 300 people within an hour. We were young at that time and couldn’t understand it， and then we asked Master Hsing Yun why we didn’t use gas tanks but firewood to cook since gas tanks were sold outside. He told us that， he did have money to buy gas tanks， but his purpose was tempering us.
The higher education background， the less time one would spend on life. Master Hsing Yun often says to us that， we should use the most original methods for cultivation and the most advanced methods for Buddhism promotion. You will see there are only a desk， a plank bed， a closet， a bookcase and an electric fan in our living place. Life is very easy here. It is actually a concept of life training and daily actions like going out， living， sitting and lying is a way of cultivation.
第二，丛林学院非常注重学生的生活教育。现在很多青年在家娇生惯养，那么来到这里我们就要求他们一切从头开始。这些天刚好有一批新学员入学，可以看到他们的生活节奏明显跟不上，都是非常吃力的在适应新的生活。其实我们生活教育的目的很简单，就是希望从生活上让他们学习。丛林学院一直在提倡“行解并重，福慧双修”，有的人书本读的非常多，学富五车，但是实际的生活操作就不见得如何了，他已经习惯于和书本的互动，但是在与人的互动这一点上，尤其是团队的精神上极其欠缺。
我经常跟他们讲，早期我来佛光山的时候，我们5个人要煮饭给300人吃，而且必须是在一个小时之内，我们那时候也很年轻，对这件事非常不理解，我们就问星云大师，外面有卖瓦斯的，我们为什么不用瓦斯而是要烧柴火呢？大师告诉我们，我不是没有钱买瓦斯，我的目的是磨练你们。
学历越高的人，花费在生活上的时间相对来说就越少一些。大师也经常和我们讲，在修行这个问题上我们要使用最原始的方法，弘法则使用最先进的。所以你就会看到，我们居住的地方，只有一张桌子，一个木板床，顶多一个衣橱和书橱，一个电风扇，如此而已，生活非常简单。这其实就是在训练生活的一个理念，日常的行住坐卧就是让你修行的一个途径。
We also foster team spirit and the notion of service and sacrifice. Students of Tsunglin University are very willing to support when there are big activities in Fo Guang Shan. They can pick up vegetables， clean and serve the dishes， and students are happy to take part in.
When having the experience here， the youths would grow up in a very healthy way， no matter later they become monks or nuns or not. Another aspect is life education， which is to let them have deeper understanding about life. So life education and livelihood education are two important characters of our university.
还有我刚刚讲的培养团队精神，有服务和奉献的理念。我们丛林学院的学生每逢佛光山有大型活动的时候，就非常愿意去支援，支援的途径有很多，比如择菜、打扫、行堂等，学生们都愿意参与其中。
其实这一系列生活下来之后，孩子会得到一个非常健康的成长，不管是出家还是在家。再者就是生命的教育，让他们对生命有一个更深入的了解和认识，因此生命的教育和生活的教育就是我们丛林学院最重要的特点。
UNITY： What are the prospects of future development for graduates of Tsunglin University？
Master Yongguang： This question should be answered from the perspective of students’ composition of our university. Our students come from 16 countries and we don’t only train students who speak Chinese that it is truly an international university. So we have a very broad vision and it is very important for the form of belief and the recognition and promotion of Buddhism. Master Hsing Yun builds a broad platform for students in this university. They would not become unemployed after graduation that they can join in TV stations， newspapers and galleries to use their skills， and also if they want to seek chances around the world， the university would provide opportunities for them. There are five students learning French in this semester and Master Hsing Yun wants to send them to France to further their studies and communicate. But since they are not monks or nuns and will not be monks or nuns in the future， others have put forward objections. But Master Hsing Yun is a real educator that he believes equal education of youths. He insists the idea and when the local temple is built， the students all offer to help. In Tsunglin University， Master Hsing Yun often gives students stages to broaden their horizons. UNITY：丛林学院的学生将来毕业以后的发展方向是哪里呢？
永光法师：要回答这个问题得从丛林学院的学生构成来说，我们的学生来自全世界16个国家，可不是单单只培养说中文的学生，是一所名副其实的国际性大学，所以大家在一起交流学习的时候视野自然就很开阔，这对于信仰的养成，对佛教的一个认知与发扬非常重要。在这所学院里，星云大师为学生们搭建平台，像电视台、报纸、美术馆等都有可以发挥自己一技之长的地方，而且如果你的意愿是要到世界各地去寻求发展，学院也是非常愿意给别人机会的。学院这学期就来了五位会法语的学生，星云大师希望把他们送去法国去深造、交流，但是因为他们是在家众，就是将来不选择出家途径的学生，针对这一问题也有人提出过异议，但是星云大师是一位真正的教育家，他对青年的教育是平等的，他坚持让他们出国学习，结果是，佛光山的寺院在法国当地落成后，这些学生纷纷主动前去帮忙。在丛林学院，大师会经常为学生们提供舞台，开拓他们的视野。
UNITY： It has been 50 years since the establishment of Tsunglin University. How does it develop from a cradle of Sangha at first place into an international university today？
Master Yongguang： Tsunglin University starts from the time of Shoushan Temple. In 1965， “Shoushan Buddhist College” was built in Shoushan Temple， Fo Guang Shan and it was the starting point of Sangha education here. At that time， Master Hsing Yun reformed many shortcomings of Buddhist education like lack of education plans and teaching materials and narrow minds of students， in order to cultivate Buddhism specialists for education， culture and charity and realize the purposes of heart purification and social harmony. Buddhist education in Taiwan began to be completed since then.
UNITY：丛林学院迄今已有50年的历史了，从最初定位于僧伽摇篮逐渐发展到今天的国际学院是如何一步步发展起来的？
永光法师：丛林学院始自寿山寺时期。1965年，“寿山佛学院”于佛光山寿山寺创建，是佛光山僧伽教育的起点。当时星云大师为造就佛教专才，以从事佛教教育、文化、慈善等事业，达到人心之净化，社会安和乐利为宗旨，改革了当时佛教教育的诸多弊病，如：缺乏教学计划、教材，及学生思想不够开放等，而让台湾的佛教教育制度开始健全。
“Shoushan Buddhist College” changed into “Oriental Buddhist College” in 1967 and reformed Buddhist education system and established a system of three levels in 1989. Tsunglin University is equal to the college education. Though the system is very completed， the school operation is not smooth at first. We only recruit monks or nuns in early days for spreading knowledge to each temple， but for various reasons， students are not that much. Students enrollment becomes a large resistance， but we insist on down.
50 years later， Tsunglin University shoulders the education inheritance of the whole Fo Guang Shan system， and 90% of students here graduate from Buddhist College. But their school durations are various. Since many monks or nuns have higher degree nowadays， they need to study for half to one year and if teachers think they can master knowledge at a fast speed and get deep understanding of the true meaning of life， then they could leave to service.
We have 15 departments all over the world. Taking the department in India as an example， it is found by Master Huixian and exclusively recruits little monks of Shakya. Buddha belongs to Shakya. There are more than 30 little monks and Master Huixian has a famous saying， “I believe a father’s shoulder coming from shouldering responsibilities”. As he is only over 30， it is not easy for him to raise 30 monks. The department is affirmed by the government and after finishing school students need to take examinations. 1967年“寿山佛学院”更名为“东方佛教学院”，并于1989年进行佛教教育学制的改革，建立三级层次的佛教教育制度。丛林学院便相当于大学教育。虽然教育体制非常完善，但是一开始学校的运行并不顺利，由于最早学院招收的学生是出家众，出发点是给各个寺院的僧众传播知识，但是由于种种原因，送来受教的僧众并不是很多。招生难成为我们的一大阻力，但是我们坚持了下来。
50年之后的今天，丛林学院已经承担了整个佛光山体系的教育传承任务，佛光山上的出家众百分之九十九都是佛学院毕业的。当然他们当中有的人在读的时间长，有的在读的时间短，因为现在很多出家众都有着较高的学历，所以一般情况这些高学历的人进到佛学院要学习半年到一年，如果老师觉得他们掌握知识速度比较快，对生活的真谛体会的比较深刻，那么他们就可以出来服务了。
目前我们在全世界建立有15个学部，以我们在印度创办的学部为例，是慧显法师创办的，专门招收释迦族的小沙弥，佛陀就是释迦族的，现在那里的小沙弥有30几个，他有一句名言，“我相信父亲的肩膀是撑出来的。”因为他本身也只有30几岁，要养30多个小沙弥着实不是一件容易的事情。这个学部的教育是经过政府认定的，在学院学习完后，要去政府参加考试。
UNITY： How many departments like this in the world？
Master Yongguang： We have this kind of departments in the USA and Japan. But in South Africa and the Philippines， because of the limits of sites， we could only recruit 40 students for those high school graduates from countryside who are good at learning but cannot afford future studies. When recruiting students this time， 17 principals brought 300 qualified ones to the interview.
UNITY：类似这样的学部在全世界有多少？
永光法师：类似这样的学部在美国、日本等国家都有，而在南非、菲律宾佛学院因为场地的关系，就只有40个名额，只能提供给高中毕业，学习成绩好，但是没有条件再继续读书的乡下孩子。他们这次去招生，17个学校的校长竟然带着他审核过的300个学生前来面试。
As we just mentioned， Tsunglin University is mainly focus on livelihood education and life education. After this， those who can go to university may continue their study and others could find jobs. If they want to stay in Buddhism they could stay. So masters in the international departments all transcend religions. They would not do not want to teach students in the Philippines since it is a Catholic country， as long as the students are willing to be educated. Most of the students are 18 or 19 years old who study very hard. The departments would subsidize them to go to college if they are capable and our fifth university will be built in the Philippines. There are five universities， three middle and primary schools， five kindergartens and 16 Buddhist colleges and they are all built by Master Hsing Yun， who thinks only education can bring progress for the country， the society and the people.
我们刚刚提及过，丛林学院主要是要教会学生对生活的教育，对生命体验的教育，而当结束了这两个教育之后，能升大学的继续去上大学，没有办法继续上大学的就去找工作，愿意留在佛教的就留在佛教，所以这些国际性的学校大师已经跨越了宗教。他不会觉得菲律宾是天主教国家，而不愿意培养，只要他们愿意接受教育。现在那些佛学院的孩子大多就是18、19岁，都是很认真的在读书，如果他们有能力考大学，学院也会资助考大学，所以我们第五间大学要在菲律宾办。现在整个佛光山的教育体系是5间大学，3间中小学，5间幼稚园，16间佛学院，这些都是没有上过学校的星云大师所创办的，他认为国家、社会、人唯有教育才能进步。
UNITY： The school motto of Tsunglin University is “Compassion， Wisdom， Vows and Cultivation”. Can you give us a further explanation about it？ Master Yongguang： Master Hsing Yun pays much attention to youths and always gives them opportunities. He often encourages us that， the four Bodhisattvas， namely Ksitigarbha， Avalokitesvara， Manjusri and Samantabhadra， are all youths. Youths have power， which is called “youths’ strength and Bodhisattva’s heart”. Master Hsing Yun says to youths that， the four Bodhisattvas are our spiritual support. Avalokitesvara shows great compassion， Ksitigarbha shows great vows， Manjusri shows great cultivation and Samantabhadra shows great wisdom. So the palace for nuns is the Great Mercy Temple and that for monks is the Great Wisdom Temple and Master Hsing Yun wants us to learn from them.
UNITY：丛林学院的校训是“悲智愿行”，请法师进一步阐述其所表达的意义是什么？
永光法师：星云大师对于青年都很用心，都给青年机会，大师经常勉励我们，四个菩萨也是青年，地藏菩萨，观音菩萨，文殊菩萨，普贤菩萨，青年拥有着力量，所谓“青年力，菩萨心”，星云大师常常告诉这些青年，四大菩萨是我们的精神，观音菩萨显示出来的是大悲，地藏菩萨是愿力，普贤菩萨是大行，文殊菩萨就是智慧，所以女众的殿堂是大悲殿，男众的殿堂就是大智殿，大师希望我们效仿他们的精神。
What the society needs most is compassion. Master Hsing Yun always reminds us that we should never give up anyone. He is definitely a great educator who teaches students in accordance of their aptitude. I once met a very talkative student， but as teachers， we prefer quiet and cautious ones. Master sent him to the Pilgrim Hall for monastery reception. Then he became very famous in this regard in Fo Guang Shan. It tells us that， we should not only see a person’s disadvantages， but dig the advantages to let everybody fully display his talents.
Here is another example. Students may ask for leave sometimes. A student asked for three days， and normally we would allow him to rest for one day. But he insisted on three days while Master Hsing Yun actually allowed him to rest for a week. In fact， the student went back to school within two days. It tells us that do not easily refuse someone’s request but offer him “better” options. Teaching needs methods. When having class， some younger students may fall asleep and others would raise objections. And then Master would say as long as it doesn't affect others， he can sleep during class and when he wakes up he may hear a word or two and learn something as well.
For those students who are naughty and sleeping in class， most of the teachers turn to punish them. But Master Hsing Yun tells us that， do not punish them by incensing or penalty kneeling. Because once we often use these physical punishments to deal with them， they would have fear and resistance towards them when they grow up. So we can change another way， like asking them to sleep in class. How could it be possible when having class？ And they would become obedient later. Education needs methods and educator needs compassion. Never give up any students easily. 其实现在的社会最需要的就是慈悲心，大师常常提醒我们说，不舍弃每一个众生，星云大师确实是一个非常伟大的教育家，他用特别的教育方法教育每一个学生。我曾经遇到过一个非常喜欢说话的学生，作为一名老师，我们一向是比较喜欢乖巧慎言的学生。但是大师就将其派去朝山会馆，去做知客，后来呢，他果然就成了佛光山一流的知客。这件事也教育了我们所有的人，看一个人不要只看到他的缺点，要善于挖掘一个人的优点才能人尽其才。
再比如，有时会有学生请假，请三天，一般来讲，我们会允许他休息一天就可以了，但是他仍然执意要休息3天，星云大师竟然允许他休息一周，事实上那个学生只有不到2天就回到了学校。这件事大师告诉我们的道理是，遇到别人的请求，不要轻易地拒绝他，要学会用“好”来代替，教育要讲究方法。还有就是在我们学生上课的时候，有的学生因为年龄比较小，特别调皮，就在上课的时间睡着了，这样别的学生就会跟老师提出异议，大师这时候就会说，他睡觉只要不影响到其他人就可以了，等他睡醒了自然也会听进去一两句，也可以学到东西的。
我们大部分老师遇到这些调皮的、上课睡觉的学生都想着去惩罚他们，但是大师却告诫我们，不要用点香罚跪的办法去惩罚这些孩子，因为一旦经常用这些身体的惩罚方式去处理他们，等他们长大以后一定会在心理上对这些产生惧怕和抵触，因此我们何不换一种方式，比如罚他们去睡觉，你想，这边在上课他怎么会睡得着呢？然后从此以后就变得很乖了。教育也要讲究方式，教育者要有一颗慈悲之心，不轻易放弃任何一个徒弟、一个学生。
UNITY： What is the whole development trend of Tsunglin University？
Master Yongguang： The largest number of people in our school reached more than 800. Firstly， I think the quality and degree of students here are improving as a whole. Former students came here at the age of 16 after graduation from high school， but now they are all elites. Here is a joke. Not long ago we carried out temple experiencing camp and short-term monks （nuns） activities to let them experience 7days’ monks’ （nuns’） life. One day， Master Hsing Yun asked me how many students we recruited， and my answer was about 100. I hoped he can make a speech for us， but he only makes speech when there are more than 1000 people. How did I persuade him？ I just told him that the 100 people are all elites including doctoral students from National Taiwan University and Peking University， and Master went happily to make a speech for them.
UNITY：丛林学院整体的发展趋势是什么？
永光法师：我们学校人数最多的时候达到800多人。首先，我觉得现在来读佛学院的学生的素质和学历都是在整体提升。以前的学生国中毕业16岁就来读书了，现在来的都是属于精英。我讲一个小笑话，前段时间我们办寺院体验营，还有短期出家活动，让他们体验7天的出家生活。一天大师问我一共招收了多少学生时，我回答是大概100人左右，我是非常希望大师能来给大家做演讲，但是大师告诉我他当时演讲的时候都是有1000多人来参加，所以让我等参加的人数到1000人才可以，但是我是怎么劝说大师的呢？我说这次来的100多人都是精英，有台大的博士生，北大的博士生，那大师就非常高兴地来给大家授课去了。
Secondly， in early days， it was hard for parents to accept their children becoming monks or nuns or studying Buddhism， because at that time Buddhism belonged to folk beliefs of the minority， especially for elder people. But a while back， 28 students applied for becoming monks （nuns）， and there even was a female. Her mother was very happy for this and announced the news to relatives and friends. She even held banquet of four tables to celebrate her daughter marring Buddhism. Everyone is in a happy mood to look at learning Buddhism. I just want to say people have had correct attitude and understanding of Buddhism nowadays. 另一点是在早期的时候，如果我们和父母讲要出家、学佛，家长一般都很难接受，因为这在当时毕竟还属于少数人的民俗信仰，尤其以年龄较大的人为主。但是，前阵子居然有28位申请出家，甚至有一位女士，她母亲非常高兴地跟其亲朋好友宣布消息称，她女儿要出家了，嫁给佛门，还办了四桌宴席，大家都是以一种欢喜的心情来看待学佛这件事情。其实我想说的是，现在的时代已经对佛学有了一个很正确的态度和认识。
UNITY： Should the students here be monks or nuns after graduation？
Master Yongguang： In general， students need to study here for three years but they would not necessarily become monks or nuns in the future. In our perspective， we do hope the university can adhere to the Master's expectations to let youths study through Buddhist College and ascend their understanding of livelihood and life to a new stage. There are too many things for young people to choose today. If they could experience this kind of learning， actually it would be helpful for our country， Buddhism and the whole world， since at least， they would not make troubles. Now many people always focus on “themselves” and let their own ideas dominant. We hope that by Buddhist education， they can purify themselves and start to help people around. Take yesterday’s volunteer sodality as an example， the prize presentation lasted from 1：30 to 4：00 since there are too many award winners. They work as volunteers for 200 hours， 400 hours， 800 hours and 1000 hours a year and show the understanding of service and dedication.
UNITY：那从学院毕业的学生将来一定要出家吗？
永光法师：学生一般在这里要学习三年，但是并不一定将来出家。从学院的角度讲，我们是真的希望秉承大师的期望，让青年通过佛学院这个通道来这边读书，然后把自己对生活、生命的认识提升到一个新的阶段。我们现在的年轻人可以选择的东西太多，如果他们能够接受这样的学习，其实对于我们国家、对于佛教，还是对于整个世界都有帮助的，至少他不会制造问题。而且现在很多人说话都是在一直强调“我”，自我的想法占到了主导，我们希望通过佛学教育让他们对自己有一个净化，通过对佛学的养成，进而可以去帮助周围的人。以昨天的义工联谊会为例，我从下午一点半颁奖一直到四点，因为获奖的人实在太多了。在一年的时间里，他们有的做义工200小时，或者400小时，800小时，甚至1000小时。这就充分体现了人们对于服务奉献的理解。